davidchen2918 2018-07-07 08:32:03

Wait so are the costumes gonna be changed permanently or is there still an option to change it back when we click on the cosplayer? I personally played this game because I’m also a Pokémon fan

EvanSW25 2018-07-07 11:11:06

Firstly the amount of work you guys are putting into this game is crazy and I appreciate it.

I really like the Ivy outfit in this picture. The pic of Jess on the left looks good and works for your story of her working in the Casino. The Phoebe pic reminds me of Blake from RWBY I like it. It would lend more to why the other girls are afraid of her. Speaking of Phoebe hasn't been in the story much lately will we see a change in that after the revamp?

EDIT: I think Sal is both overthinking and overestimating what you mean by changing the game. The pokemon theme is cool sure. However I imagine it will stay a turnbased game where you fight cute cosplay girls destroying their costumes then having sex with them. It doesn't have to stay pokemon to keep to the core of what it is that is just aesthetic. Also none of the characters' personalities are impacted much by the pokemon they are choosing to cosplay. So outside of what they are wearing they will still be the same.

MrSal 2018-07-07 20:09:50

I understand the reasoning, but I think you're critically underestimating the amount of support you get *because* it's blatantly Pokemon. "Inspired by" costumes aren't what people play for. A C&D will certainly put a stop to POKE-Conquest, but preemptively moving away from the main draw will only serve to lose supporters sooner. I, myself, personally play for the Pokemon theme, combined with the other qualities. I strongly advise reconsidering the plan to change the costumes and future characters to semi-original outfits. I think it'll go over far worse than you expect. Regaining fans and supporters is much harder than keeping them, and simply undoing design choices won't bring anyone back.

Furthermore, from a player perspective, as pretty as the redesigns may be, all this screams to me is "no new content for months because we want to go redo the old stuff first." I've said this before: wait to polish old content until the game is done. A steady stream of new content is what keeps players playing and supporters paying. Going and redoing designs or adding new faces to old scenes or what have you has value, but it's not what you should be focusing on now. Firstly you should get back onto your monthly schedule, then use whatever remaining time in the month to polish or tweak whatever you feel needs to be, or whatever you want to polish or tweak. I know as artists it's often difficult to leave old work alone, but trust in your fans. We love what you've done, and there's no need to change it now. Take the lesson George Lucas learned from the special editions of Star Wars to heart: fans love what it is, flaws and all, and going back and altering it, even for what you consider better, will only result in alienating those who've invested love into the work.

Whatever you decide, thank you for POKE-Conquest up till now.

EDIT: (I'll add the addendum here and delete it's original comment. I didn't know you could edit posts. Thanks Ewan!)

As an addendum, as an example of the final paragraph, I still prefer original Ivy to both this one and the new-ish redesign. They're both great, but the original had an irreplaceable charm that the highly polished new versions lack. I'd rather have her original sprite back than have the different reaction faces. Make of this what you will.

littlerussell99 2018-07-08 12:59:20

Sounds promising. I can't wait to see what happens next. I loved Con-Quest, i kinda felt like it would be in development hell forever though.. None the less just be glad there sticking with it and transforming it to something new. Not everything is lost the characters still look the same to me.

gatekid3 2018-07-08 16:16:39

@MrSal You seem to have misread the title of the game. it is poke-con, yes, but its "CON-QUEST:poke-con" Its con-quest first and foremost and whatevers after that could easily be changed. If you like it only because pokemon, Thats fine and its also fine if this turns you away, but there is also the characters, comedy, and stupidity (fan service is a thing too but whatever). If all those people ONLY supported it because it was pokemon related then thats a pretty shallow sense of enjoyment. Its like the mother 4 game. It received a C&D and its changing, but people arent just going to drop it because a mr. saturn is no longer going to be in it. maybe it will bum a few or even alot of people out, but i dont think everyone is just going to jump ship. It would be different if the pokemon actually played an important roll to each character but it doesnt. Its as basic as, "im in the fire area, so i am a fire pokemon" "I am a cop...so i am the cop from pokemon". No one was tied to their character.

the alternative is them waiting until many MORE assets need to be changed and then stopping everything when the C&D comes. that would be even more time dedicated to changing things.

Armathos 2018-07-08 21:43:59

To think we may never see the rest of the Eevee horde appear in the game is sad....though I am perfectly okay with a change to Phoebe, Jaclyn and Carmen's outfits...those three stand out as the most laughably lacking in creativity...a hoodie is not cosplay Phoebe(which makes me think her tendency to be evil combined with a talent for sucking dicks is the ONLY reason she's won any sort of cosplay contest). At least Ivy -tried- to make an actual cosplay and not sew a face onto a yellow hoodie.

The rest of the characters are perfect the way they are.

Swagmlgpro69 2018-07-09 01:39:57

About time best girl had an outfit improvement :D

MrSal 2018-07-10 01:17:59

@gatekid3 Yes, it's CON-QUEST: Poke-Con. As in [CONVENTION_QUEST: Pokemon Convention]. The Pokemon part isn't "first" but it's an integral part to what the title is. Be honest, how many people came for the Poke-Con part versus the CON-QUEST part. Shallow enjoyment or not, what people play for is what people play for. If they no longer get what they are looking for they leave. Cuddlepit should know that people will be disappointed in the change. Not everyone will jump ship, but many will, and there will be far fewer new audience and Patreons.

Many characters are explicitly tied to the Pokemon they're cosplaying. Phoebe's whole shtick of being the #1 Pika-Cosplayer wouldn't work half as well with an original character. You didn't mean it so, but by saying a character doesn't need the Pokemon they were designed from is saying that Cuddlepit arbitrarily chose Pokemon to add their character to. That's insulting to their writing, and the thought they put into each character.

I know nothing of Mother 4 or it's controversy, but my limited understanding is that the stories of each game are fairly unrelated? If so, people were looking for a specific style and presentation, not a specific character or world. With Poke-con people came FOR the designs. As fantastic as Cuddlepit is, and as much work as they've put in, there are thousands of other Poke-like games to choose from. Even if Poke-con was one of the best (and it may be), they'll lose a significant amount of players to the myriad of other Poke-like games, while people who wanted a Mother-like game have far, far, less options.

I find your insinuation that you don't come to a porn game for the fan service, and that it isn't important to you, to be incredibly childish. The game has funny dialogue and great designs yes, but it IS a porn game. Either own it or don't bring it up.

I didn't interpret Cuddlepit's comments that they had already received a D&C. If they did, that changes the circumstances, although not the effect it will have. Waiting would result in more work later, but shooting yourself in the foot because you're worried you'll need to amputate it later and want to get a head start is nonsense.

Don't misinterpret my comments to be spiteful or malicious. I wouldn't bother writing anything if I didn't want Cuddlepit to succeed. But the first step to success is honesty, and I want them to know (although I'm sure they're aware) of the significant drawbacks that could result from their current plans. White knighing and brown nosing won't keep the pay checks rolling in.

EDIT: Just a little example I thought up. Look at the highest rating adult games on Newgrounds for the year. Pussymon, another Poke-like game, has consistently high ratings and views despite it's limited gameplay and questionable art. I'd wager it's mostly there because the subject matter. If something like that can get boosted above 75% of other entries on Newgrounds because of what it's parodying, how much more does a solid game like Poke-Con get boosted by the same?

gatekid3 2018-07-10 03:07:51

@MrSal
i still stand by my statement that no character is tied to their mon. yes, phoebe's thing is kind of enhanced by knowing "oh, pikachu is the most popular pokemon", but its also popular to establish the thing phoebe is cosplaying as is the most popular in universe. The designs will still be pokemon inspired to a degree, so you can still make that connection, or if the writings done well, you can still get the point in game even if you dont see the pokemon connection. So again. not tied to the pokemon. In fact if they just said "dont mess with her, she's the number 1 "___" cosplayer" and did some of the other jokes implying she's done horrible things, you can already imply its a popular character. maybe add a few posters to solidify it and bam, exact same character, just not an existing property.
i really wish you would have elaborated on the care they put into each mon cosplayer. i dont see much beyond, fire pokemon starter, girl wears red/ orange and is in the fire room. maybe if you look deeper you can say the fire symbolizes her burning passion and fiery spirit or something like that, but it still seems like a basic connection that you could say about any fire pokemon. the bonus of "i know that pokemon/character" has rarely added to the character them self. I guess one thing that would be lost is misty not being able to swim, but you can work around that if she was cosplaying as a sailor, pirate, or mermaid. Im not saying no thought was put into these characters, im saying the pokemon just arent as connected as you seem to be saying. If the bulbasuar girl was a chespin instead, nothing would change except..people like bulbasuar more so they might not find her design to be as initially appealing?
officer jenny, hex maniac, and nurse joy all have significant roles related to their cosplay...but thats related to the job, not the character.
The pokemon werent arbitrarily chosen, but the choice also wasnt integral. pikachu, bulbasuar, charmander, and squirtle are popular, pick them. need a group of matching pokemon for a maid service that can also function as alternate elemental characters (that are also popular), eevee, now you have like...8 potential characters you can add to the cafe. I keep repeating myself but im trying to be clear and not leave out anything, you can suck the pokemon out of this game completely, and all that would change is that pokemon isn't there. Pokeballs arent even the method of capture.

They are also trying to make their own less pokemon seeming battle system, so clearly they want to make this pokemon inspired, but their own thing.

the fan service comment was more of an obvious joke considering the nature of the game. But i will admit, the porn was the clickbait that drew me in, but the main reason i keep checking back in is because the story is so stupid i love it and want to see the weird plot jumps they make to switch up the formula. So thats partially why i have my stance. Im in it for the absurdity, while you are in it for the mon. Pokemon are a hook, but not the only hook.

wait...you are basically saying a gunshot to the foot now isnt as good as cutting off the whole thing later. Thats weird logic, so i still standby mine. if you and a bunch are upset now, if this gets so much bigger because of the pokemon alone, that is a much bigger backlash. A D&C is bound to happen, it would be different if it was only a chance of it happening, but weve seen how nintendo gets about fangames, so fixing the problem early really sounds like a better long term idea. There are going to be losses to the pokemon followers either way

plus, theres also the chance non pokemon fans are drawn in after the change, and it might be seen by those people BECAUSE of the boost it has now. There HAS to be other people who will still support even after the changes, and those people could let it reach people who wouldn't hve seen it if it had no pokemon from the stop. That might even counteract all the people you predict will leave.

I see your overall point, but i dont think that means cuddlepit should do anything differently, i feel like this is the best course of action. I also think not as many people will drop as you think, especially since they will still be pokemon inspired, they just wont be direct costumes.
Your stance sounds like its just, pokemon is important to the game, which, sure, yeah. but its not going to outright fail without it, and if it was....then they would have been just as upset if not more when nintendo strikes them down in the future.

MrSal 2018-07-10 17:22:40

@gatekid3 I'm terrible at making analogies, I really shouldn't try. The foot thing was meant as "they shouldn't maim themselves now because they're worried about getting killed in the future." If I'm right, and the Poke aspect is the main draw, then removing it because they're worried about a potential D&C is just killing or significantly crippling their own product before a D&C might. I don't know for sure, maybe you're right and most players will stay, but from my experience with crowd-funding is that people are downright fickle.

I'll agree to disagree. I think it's important Cuddlepit see different sides on the issue, so hopefully we've both been helpful is someway. (Although I'm not sure they actually read Newgrounds comments.)

As a parting note, I'll just leave this Google Trends search here.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=pokemon%20porn,original%20character%20porn,inspired%20pokemon%20porn

Hopefully that'll help explain my thoughts on the viability of and interest in OG or even "inspired by" content vs Poke content.

Have a wonderful day.

TrueEnder 2018-07-10 17:41:46

love the new ivy, and am ready to accept that things are going to change.

please don't change them too much though, I like them as they are too.

gatekid3 2018-07-10 19:46:08

@MrSal If its going to die its better it dies now so they can move on rather than later when so much more is put into it, so i still think this option is better. You keep saying people will leave if they change now, but you havent given any reason to show that staying a pokemon game will overall be positive. the ONLY positive it sounds like youve said is it will keep the people who came for pokemon, but ive already said why that doesnt matter because a D&C later will do the same thing only worse. It will kill the game after so much more work has been put in..
Correct me if im wrong, but It sounds like you just kind of want them to stretch as far as they can with pokemon stuff so you can have as much pokemon as you can get before they are slapped down by nintendo instead of wanting the game to actually succeed.

neither of us know if the people will drop it or stick to it, but even if you are right and alot of people leave, i feel my argument for why switching now is better is still more solid then your stance

And no, the google trend thing makes no sense to me.
No one is going to type in "original character porn" or "pokemon inspired porn", so this doesnt say anything. they would type in "porn game", which if you look, is almost twice as much as "pokemon porn".I know "porn game" wont lead them straight to conquest, but if it has enough supporters it might make it more easily found. Plus, since its going to be pokemon inspired, typing in "pokemon porn" might lead to con-quest anyway, in addition to "porn games". It might pick up an even bigger following.

the pokemon fans who didnt jump ship, the people who stumble onto it just looking for a porn game, and the people who like the new pokemon inspired angle they are going with. So if anything, the google trend thing reinforces my own reasoning on the matter that making the change now is better long term.

Randomas 2018-07-12 07:17:14

Glad to hear this will no-more be a strict Pokemon clone game! I'm waiting for the new release!

MrSal 2018-07-12 19:36:32

@gatekid3 They've already put years into PokeCon. I think they should keep it going as long as they can to at least maintain, and probably grow, their current income. You want them to rip-off the band-aid so they can lose it all to start over quicker. Difference of opinion, both valid.

If you don't think maintaining being a parody one of the biggest gaming franchises in the world that has one of the largest industries of pornographic parodies surrounding it will help get more new players and Patreons than being some random porn click-bait that there are millions of, I really can't say anything else. That's just a staggering lack of understanding on how sales work, particularly on crowd-funding websites. Their rate of new viewership WILL decrease.

Factoring in the people who may drop due to the change, Cuddlepit could very possibly die before there ever is a C&D. That's what you're advocating for - the chance to destroy their company before it's killed. If you still think it's the for the best? Fine. But I don't.

The only reason I've commented is because I want Cuddlepit to continue to grow, particularly if they continue making a product I enjoy. I don't think our continued arguing will do any more good for our absentee creators, so how about let's both stop reiterating the same points continuously and each go on our merry way?

epicsora 2018-07-17 03:46:45

I just have one question are you making the change because you recently got in trouble or just cause you want to be safe? everything had been fine up till now so the change feels out of nowhere regardless Im going to keep playing cause I enjoy the game keep up the great work :D